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Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Looking for your first accordion? Upgrading?
Philh4955
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Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Philh4955 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm

Hi I’m looking to buy a C system Saltarelle Chaville/Bourroche or similar. Preferably 5 row. Not an easy ask I appreciate but you never know.......

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:03 pm

New ones here in West Yorkshire, and I'm sure there is a seller based in Shropshire or Somerset who occasionally sells them used on Gumtree.

They're not exactly cheap, but nothing is these days.

https://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/but ... ville5.htm

Never owned or played one but did have a notion for one at one time. Don't think they'll ever be common enough in the UK to get one as a bargain.

The natural wood finish tends to suffer a bit from knocks and general wear and tear, but at least no two will be the same in that respect. I'd certainly go for one as they sound great (at least in the demo clips when played by a good player).

EDIT:- Scrub that mention of Gumtree. Box I saw was this Mengascini. A beauty, but not a Saltarelle, and it's B system.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/accordians/me ... 1326293085

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Philh4955 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 pm

Thanks for these. I had seen them both but assume the new ones are to order so some wait for them I would have jumped at the Mengascine if it had been C rather than B. Only just managing the conversion from PA to C system so think this would confuse my aging brain!

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:36 am

Phil,

The owner of Saltarelle, Vincent Roux, posted this on the melodeon.net forum.

https://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=21254.100

Looks like there would be a wait for a new one, and as always you'll be waiting in the wings until the requirements of the superstars are met. That's not peculiar to Saltarelle, but just a fact of life. You wait a year or more for yours while Johnny Pro sends his back several times to be tweaked, and selfishly holds production up, because his just needs to be "absolutely perfect". Accordions are complex without a doubt, but in the two years it takes to supply a new Pigini, how many customers will have seen alternatives, and wish they hadn't bothered committing themselves? There will be "Friday afternoon" Piginis, the same as every other maker turns out.

A French baroness ordered a Bentley and was told that production would be delayed for some inexplicable reason. She bought a Citroen 2CV off a local garage forecourt and told them to ram the Bentley. That's the problem with we accordionists. We're far too picky and image conscious. Everybody in the local area knew she was a baroness whether she was in a Bentley or a jogging suit with trainers. I can never quite work out what pro accordionist absolutely requires a Pigini, or what amateur is prepared to wait two years for one? I waited 27 years for my first wife when another one would definitely have been a better option. Takes all sorts I suppose.

You never know what will turn up. Saltarelle were selling quite a few CBAs in France about 25 years ago, but they weren't in natural wood finish.

Good luck.
Last edited by maugein96 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by dunlustin » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:10 am

Bought my Bourroche here:

https://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/but ... escription

From memory it was in stock* and they gave me an excellent trade-in on my Deering banjo, also they took my Hohner Merlin in and sold it for more than they said I might get!.

I've shopped there for years and always found them great to deal with.

* I fear this may be a false memory but it was quick and the rest stands- add embarrassed emoji 'cos I don't know where they're kept.

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:45 am

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saltarelle-C ... SwTbNb5FfG

Not a 5 row, but looks pretty good. I've played CBA for about 35 years and never used the 5th row very much at all. other than to experiment. I learned the old fashioned French way on the outside three rows only at first, moving onto the fourth row after a few months.

I've been taking lessons recently to improve my timing and left hand, and my CBA teacher isn't fussy where I play as long as I can hit the right notes. In fact, he'll often help me to work out fingering that doesn't involve the 5th row. He's played PA for 50 years and CBA for 8. I find that if I move too far inside then I have issues with sight reading, as I cannot remember where I'm about, but totally understand that most UK types prefer 5 rows, especially if they are PA converts. Yvette Horner used to regularly perform using a little 3 row Cavagnolo. Everything from folk, through musette, to classical.

Must be a difficult one, but if you need a 5 row it's no good. Don't know what a "bass flute" is. The standard Chaville comes in two versions. One has two banks of M reeds that you can have tuned as wide as you want. The other one is a straight tuned box with one bank of bassoon reeds and one bank of flutes. I would presume she's selling one of the latter.

Sound samples of both kinds here (but you probably know that already). The one voice clip has an amazing sound on a single reed, and I think I'd prefer the one with the bandoneon tuning on account of that. If I was a devotee of that French folk sound I'd be in York before you!

http://www.saltarelle.com/en/chaville-0

Geoff de Limousin
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:47 am

Here in France a Chaville or Bourroche will come up from time to time. Try www.jjmusicaccordeons.wordpress.com and keep scrolling down jj's pages ( at the bottom of each page press the 'articles précédents' button to continue) until you find a five row Bourroche he is selling for 3800 euros. I have been thinking of buying this one but my dentist is insisting I spend the money on my teeth :? :o ! Hmmmm... a blender and another accordion might be a preferable option after all, at 69 will I get long term value from the new knashers ?

Or you can try www.leboncoin.fr the site prefered by most french people for selling their unwanted stuff.... loads of CBAs available there including some Saltarelles.

I have tried both the Bourroche and the Arcadia (96bass) and for reasons of size and bass register switches I would go for the slightly larger Arcadia.... just not seen a secondhand one ... yet.

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:56 am

Geoff,

I'm a member of a guitar forum, and a 78 year old member in the US posted in dismay that he had to forego buying a new guitar, as his dentist had told him he was going to have to spend $30,000 on his teeth. I offered to go over to the US and do the work myself with a hammer and a pair of pliers for half of that fee, but he never took me up on it. He missed out on a really great Gibson guitar. Wish I was a dentist in the US or France, even if I had to get better tools. How can any dentist justify taking $30,000 from a 78 year old man?

Those natural wood boxes are gaining in popularity, and are even ending up over here. Are they made of driftwood? Nice French folky sound to them. I still have all my teeth except two. Reckon I could maybe swap them for a Bourroche, as blenders are dirt cheap here?

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:06 pm

John, I'm sure you could do the dental work, as it appears to me the most important skill is knowing where to stick the needle.... after that it is just drills and pliers. I had two bolts fitted to one tooth on tuesday... it took fifteen minutes and cost 88 euros..... and that's before you start on actual fitting new chompers.... back in two weeks time for the next peg... at this rate I'll slowly go broke over several months especially as I felt too rough to work until this morning.... never mind having difficulty chewing the Venison that our hunting neighbour donated the day before... beautifully cooked by my missus and as tender as could be.

I'd been actually looking for a concertina, a spare to carry to gigs because my principle concertina is 120 years old now and although in perfect health it has chucked a wobbly on two occasions during a Bal Trad, usually a broken spring which is a pig to replace under funny coloured stage lighting and " opps I left my reading glasses at home"... So, my pal in Devon from whom I have bought two concertinas in the past, suggested the Blender as a cheaper option and could I offer the dentist a trade ? The Pal, being an antique restorer, says he has done this with his dentist..... Hmmm, short of offering my dentist a couple of accordions I tried him with the old " what can you do for cash?" routine... no dice... it's all got to be done official here in France.

Well at least my dental bill is nothing like £30,000 and what would an old guy do with a Hollywood smile anyway ?

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:41 pm

Geoff,

We have private dental treatment, as the NHS ones pulled out (get it?). £15 per month each for a "plan" that gets you two visits to the hygienist, and a check up by the dentist annually. Fillings cost from about £30-£90, but luckily I never usually need much done.

Dentist is from Northern Ireland so he and I share the same humour "I could put fillings in those three broken teeth, and they might last a couple of years, or I could just leave them as they are." "Seriously, what do you think?" "I seriously think you're going to tell me to ram the fillings!" "And I seriously think you're right!"

As one Ulsterman to another we have mutual understanding, and it does help in situations like that. We've had that same conversation now for the last few years.

Was a time I had to look for an Irish barber, but nature took care of that one. Number 3 all over with a beard trimmer does the trick and no queues either!

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:58 pm

John,
we do have a health insurance system in France too, both the obligatoire ( regime social) and the private insurance that tops up the social cover... these will cover 33% of the total dental bill . Most dentists I've met up until now appear to have assumed I'd never be able to afford their best efforts... but in my recent frantic search ( during a raging tooth ache) to find a dentist that has not got a three months waiting list even for emergencies...my previous dentist having retired , I was directed to a Scottish practitioner who is new in the area. This fellow has taken over a practice that was dead in the water due to very poor work done by his predecessor. However, even though he appears to be twiddling his thumbs waiting for patients, his workmanship is, so far, excelent. Perhaps he is poorer than me ( very doubtfull) and is trying to maximize profits from each customer. He does look bored so perhaps I could try to offer him an accordion, he could kill those hours waiting for customers by trying to work out how to play like Gus Viseur.

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Philh4955 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 pm

Thanks for the links Geoff - very useful. I will be over in France soon so may try to visit Dijon. Will probably bring my Maugein to try to sell

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:29 pm

Geoff,

I think quite a few tried to play like Gus Viseur, but I remember reading that he had an unorthodox style that was difficult to copy. I can also remember one or two players who modelled themselves in his general style, although the names now escape me. One of them played a white Cavagnolo and died very young.

Scottish dentists in France? Can't remember seeing a French dentist in Scotland, so that maybe tells its own story. We do still have NHS dentists, but many of them are from Eastern Europe and Asia, and don't tend to last long in any one place. My granddaughter works as a dental nurse in a local NHS practice. She sometimes gets shifts in a private practice nearby and earns as much in two days as she could in a week at the NHS place.

Anything requiring a general anaesthetic and we need to go the local slaughterhouse that the roadsigns optimistically refer to as a "hospital".

Our health service is probably a lot worse than you remember it, and we need to pay extra income tax in Scotland to cover our version of the NHS and massive welfare payouts. We are still among the poorest of the Brits, but there is hope. They've just spent millions making some of our roadsigns bilingual in case the 57 Scots who cannot read English feel disadvantaged. The cop cars now tell us the officers are employed by "Poileas Alba" and that makes us feel a whole load safer.

Never mind, the way things are going here a Cavagnolo will soon cost the annual salary of 10 UK dentists, so we can all stop worrying about buying one. In Greece last May we were getting exactly one Euro to the Pound in the more rural areas.

Not to worry. Holidays in Milton Keynes aren't all that bad (while Scotland is still part of the UK).

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Philh4955 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Hmm
Not sure how this helps with finding me an accordion but thanks anyway.

Ps very happy with my NHS dentist!

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:16 pm

Sorry Phil,

I'm notorious for straying off the beaten track, and it won't be the first time the moderators have deleted some or all of the content of certain of my posts.

I know some forums are very strict about staying on topic. I am no longer a member of any of those forums.

Some of us get to know each other over the years and the banter often goes beyond a handful of words.

Good luck finding your Saltarelle, and hope your playing doesn't end up too "wooden" when you start playing.

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:23 am

Philh4955 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 pm
Thanks for the links Geoff - very useful. I will be over in France soon so may try to visit Dijon. Will probably bring my Maugein to try to sell
A personal visit is a good idea . I find speaking french is easier face to face than by telephone, arm waving and facial expressions, body language etc. all usefull. Vincent R. speaks very good english but most people don't, or don't want to.

JJ Music does have an advantage for you as he may well be interested to trade-in your Maugein.

Make sure to check 'le diapason' of any accordion you want to purchase... modern boxes can be anything between 440 and 446hz. in France.

I mentioned that I prefered the Arcadia over the Bourroche, this is due to size mostly as I find the smaller boxes tend to jiggle about. I ended up buying a Fisitalia 'compact 49'...(second hand). Ok it does not have the look of those wooden models, and it twinkles a bit under stage lighting and it is a bit like having an over painted blond lead singer in a folk band , but at less than half the price of a new Saltarelle or Castagnari ....... :tup:

Sorry about the excessive banter with John... just a bit of fun.

Good luck with your search {}

Geoff.

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Corsaire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:21 am

I have sold 2 PAs (96 and 72 bass compact) at our local accordion shop near Rennes (Brittany) within a few weeks of leaving them there. I was very surprised as the PA is not popular in this area. The shop's commission was 15% which seemed reasonable. Hobgoblin had my 96 bass for 18 months, on a 33% commission and failed to sell it.

So, Phil, you could certainly consider leaving it with a shop to sell for you. They're unlikely to do any sort of part exchange, generally preferring 2 separate transactions. If you come to Brittany, there are several accordion specialists who would probably help you. They don't necessarily advertise what they are selling secondhand unless it's one of their own models.

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:36 am

Sally,

I cannot be certain, but recent indications on market places like "leboncoin" and even French eBay seem to show a slight increase in the number of PAs for sale in France, compared with say 10 years ago?

Maybe the influx of people from other areas of Europe is the reason, but I just don't know. Certainly, as far as CBA in Scotland goes, there aren't very many still going around here at all compared with 20 years ago. I do remember when I first started out in the mid 80s being told by staff in various music shops that PA would be a better choice, as CBA was becoming less popular (in Scotland). I never quite believed that, but it would appear that they were perfectly correct.

Even in that wall to wall CBA country that is Portugal, a good few YT clips are of PA players these days.

Might be that there are so many people in Brittany buying diatonics these days the shops are full of unwanted PAs?

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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by Corsaire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:18 am

John

How well the PA sells does depend on the area. They are not often seen in Brittany. There may be private owners but I haven't yet seen a PA performed in public ! The person who bought my 96 bass lives in Paris and the shop didn't know where the other buyer came from. The secondhand boxes sold by local shop are mainly CBA and diatonic and few PAs (perhaps they're more valuable by their rarity value !!!). But I'm thrilled to bits with the Brandoni PA I bought recently - they do wooden boxes too but that adds weight ....

The diatonic is king here but there are many CBA players playing wood Salterelles and other makes which have the diatonic "look" which seems all important here.

maugein96
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Re: Wanted Saltarelle Chaville or similar.

Post by maugein96 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Sally,

The link that Geoff posted to "JJ" is excellent, and I did notice there was only one PA for sale amongst many CBAs (both 3/3 and some 2/4 bass). Prices appear to be up a bit of late in the shops compared with here, but if you want a selection of CBAs in good condition, then I suppose France is the place to go. I noticed in JJ's list that Italian "Internazionale" style boxes with grille mounted couplers can also be had if you're not keen on French spec.

Phil,

Be careful with 6 row bass models, unless you fancy a change of bass configuration. Normal set up is 3/3 bass in France, but you might know that already. If you look hard you will find 2/4 as they do exist there, but they are nowhere near as common.

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