FR4x feedback

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Keymn
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FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:17 pm

I have owned my fr4x for 8 months now. I would like to start your feedback on this model.
Here is mine:
1. Portability light weight - I like the fact I can stroll and the smaller size gives some nice bellows action.
2. Battery life - used up to 4 hour gigs. Holds charge. Always have a second battery pack ready and charged.
3. Accordion volume . Very good, lot better then expected. EQ is important setting. Very clean sounding. Notice no distortion, even at full volume.
4. Accordion sounds - factory sounds need tweaking slightly. I intend to like it more bright with effects.
5. Orchestra sounds - ok, but I intend to lean towards Korg sounds.

Have no regrets on this purchase. Had to go to smaller size which was one of the big reasons of this purchase.
I do not like the one-way midi port. Wish it was wired bi-directional.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
http://www.larryrobertsent.com

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JerryPH
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by JerryPH » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:02 pm

Have you looked at the Richard Noel sets? I can say without doubt that they totally changed my 8X, to the way I feel it should have come from the factory, it is eye opening. :)

I do know that many 4X people say that one of the best things they did to improve the sound was to play with the EQ settings.
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:31 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:02 pm
Have you looked at the Richard Noel sets? I can say without doubt that they totally changed my 8X, to the way I feel it should have come from the factory, it is eye opening. :)

I do know that many 4X people say that one of the best things they did to improve the sound was to play with the EQ settings.
I have looked into others creating sets. They are done well, in my opinion.
I rely on maybe 5-7 registers on most of my shows. To remember a certain set for a particular song is too mind boggling.
My accordion is used primarily for world music. The reason is, I have a Korg arranger to play country, classic rock, standards, etc.

I Strolled a large room of over 800 guests Wednesday night. Had no problem being heard without external amplification. Some though I was playing along with tracks using the drum sounds on the left hand. Could not be done with eq and effects settings from factory. But, do not think it is that complicated as some may think?
I do not think Roland intended to program sets to the liking of all. Buying an arranger too requires your own personal settings.
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torch
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by torch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:30 pm

Keymn wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:17 pm
I have owned my fr4x for 8 months now. I would like to start your feedback on this model.
Here is mine:
1. Portability light weight - I like the fact I can stroll and the smaller size gives some nice bellows action.
2. Battery life - used up to 4 hour gigs. Holds charge. Always have a second battery pack ready and charged.
3. Accordion volume . Very good, lot better then expected. EQ is important setting. Very clean sounding. Notice no distortion, even at full volume.
4. Accordion sounds - factory sounds need tweaking slightly. I intend to like it more bright with effects.
5. Orchestra sounds - ok, but I intend to lean towards Korg sounds.

Have no regrets on this purchase. Had to go to smaller size which was one of the big reasons of this purchase.
I do not like the one-way midi port. Wish it was wired bi-directional.
I agree to just about everything that you said. When it comes to the orchestra sounds on the 4x, its inability to layer two orchestra sounds is a very limiting factor. The real magic begins to happen when layering two orchestra sounds just as on the 7x and 8x. For this reason, I view my 4x as a light midi controller to drive hardware and software sounds. In this regard, the biggest flaw of the 4x for me is its velocity levels on MIDI out. Bass/chord are too “hot” and the treble (accordion mode) is too weak. You have to bang on the keyboard with extreme force to reach the maximum value of 127 in expression cc#11. I don’t remember having any velocity issues with the FR1x, 3x, and the 7x is perfect. I had to explain a few times before the Roland rep began to understand the issue. I wrote to a manager with Roland US, and he said he would add to my letter and send it to Japan. The Ketron SD4 and my V3 Sound Desktop arranger have built-in features to overcome the velocity issue. Probably it’s because they are accordion friendly modules. However, when I play VST instruments, the issue is very obvious. I use an app to raise the velocity curve on midi channel one. I’ve hardware to do the same, but it’s a lot of chores to go through. Hopefully, the Japanese engineers will fix the issue in the next OS update.

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:49 pm

torch wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:30 pm
Keymn wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:17 pm
I have owned my fr4x for 8 months now. I would like to start your feedback on this model.
Here is mine:
1. Portability light weight - I like the fact I can stroll and the smaller size gives some nice bellows action.
2. Battery life - used up to 4 hour gigs. Holds charge. Always have a second battery pack ready and charged.
3. Accordion volume . Very good, lot better then expected. EQ is important setting. Very clean sounding. Notice no distortion, even at full volume.
4. Accordion sounds - factory sounds need tweaking slightly. I intend to like it more bright with effects.
5. Orchestra sounds - ok, but I intend to lean towards Korg sounds.

Have no regrets on this purchase. Had to go to smaller size which was one of the big reasons of this purchase.
I do not like the one-way midi port. Wish it was wired bi-directional.
I agree to just about everything that you said. When it comes to the orchestra sounds on the 4x, its inability to layer two orchestra sounds is a very limiting factor. The real magic begins to happen when layering two orchestra sounds just as on the 7x and 8x. For this reason, I view my 4x as a light midi controller to drive hardware and software sounds. In this regard, the biggest flaw of the 4x for me is its velocity levels on MIDI out. Bass/chord are too “hot” and the treble (accordion mode) is too weak. You have to bang on the keyboard with extreme force to reach the maximum value of 127 in expression cc#11. I don’t remember having any velocity issues with the FR1x, 3x, and the 7x is perfect. I had to explain a few times before the Roland rep began to understand the issue. I wrote to a manager with Roland US, and he said he would add to my letter and send it to Japan. The Ketron SD4 and my V3 Sound Desktop arranger have built-in features to overcome the velocity issue. Probably it’s because they are accordion friendly modules. However, when I play VST instruments, the issue is very obvious. I use an app to raise the velocity curve on midi channel one. I’ve hardware to do the same, but it’s a lot of chores to go through. Hopefully, the Japanese engineers will fix the issue in the next OS update.
I have not tried using the 4x as a controller as of yet. I think this is an important issue, velocity.
Just keep your head up high and we can hope for the best in 2018.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
http://www.larryrobertsent.com

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by ChuckHenryAndMusic » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:54 am

JerryPH wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:02 pm
Have you looked at the Richard Noel sets? I can say without doubt that they totally changed my 8X, to the way I feel it should have come from the factory, it is eye opening. :)

I do know that many 4X people say that one of the best things they did to improve the sound was to play with the EQ settings.
Could you please tell me about the 'EQ settings' you use?

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JerryPH
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by JerryPH » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:49 pm

ChuckHenryAndMusic wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:54 am
JerryPH wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:02 pm
Have you looked at the Richard Noel sets? I can say without doubt that they totally changed my 8X, to the way I feel it should have come from the factory, it is eye opening. :)

I do know that many 4X people say that one of the best things they did to improve the sound was to play with the EQ settings.
Could you please tell me about the 'EQ settings' you use?
I have an 8X, not a 4X, and my EQ settings are either factory or set per the Richard Noel sets, but I know many people like Dale Mathis and Linda Herman (both 4X users), who all say that changing the EQ settings on their 4X makes a significant improvement. I would think that adding a little more bass and treble would be of benefit. Now, everyone has different ideas about what is best for them, feel free to play with it a while and see what works best for you. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:38 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:49 pm
ChuckHenryAndMusic wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:54 am
JerryPH wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:02 pm
Have you looked at the Richard Noel sets? I can say without doubt that they totally changed my 8X, to the way I feel it should have come from the factory, it is eye opening. :)

I do know that many 4X people say that one of the best things they did to improve the sound was to play with the EQ settings.
Could you please tell me about the 'EQ settings' you use?
I have an 8X, not a 4X, and my EQ settings are either factory or set per the Richard Noel sets, but I know many people like Dale Mathis and Linda Herman (both 4X users), who all say that changing the EQ settings on their 4X makes a significant improvement. I would think that adding a little more bass and treble would be of benefit. Now, everyone has different ideas about what is best for them, feel free to play with it a while and see what works best for you. :)
First you have to understand what each of the settings do. Which I am not technically trained in this, but I first adjusted all the parameters in the middle, “0” (flat response). As an experiment, adjust one parameter at a time just to hear what they do. If you picture an amp with EQ slide controls, making those controls look like a smile is a good place to start (a sound engineer told me once). I think there is a big difference between vocal EQ settings and the accordion ones.
I found EQ settings significantly affects the accordion volume without distortion.
Best to have the volume set full when making adjustments. If you are happy with your sound, best not to mess with it. Best to leave it to the pros whom you mentioned. As for me, not knowing what I am doing, found a satisfying EQ setting
( I think by accident).
On my Korg PA3x, it shows a graph on the touch screen which is a neat feature.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
http://www.larryrobertsent.com

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by JerryPH » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:57 pm

With the 4X you can use the computer-based editor, that makes things a lot easier. This is something that only the 4X had until recently, when they made one for the 8X. It's fun to see the differences you can make.
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:37 am

JerryPH wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:57 pm
With the 4X you can use the computer-based editor, that makes things a lot easier. This is something that only the 4X had until recently, when they made one for the 8X. It's fun to see the differences you can make.
Yes, the editor makes it easier and like an EQ rack you can see the curve. I do not think my EQ is near the others that sell those sets. The factory settings are a good start and only small adjustments should be made. I found many EQ curves online which is a something to experiment with. But save your original settings! I still think EQ is more of a personal setting. Everyone hears music different.
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Esteo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:47 pm

Where in the editor can I find and change my EQ-settings?
Cant find it in my "Using FR-4x Editor"-pdf.
Sincerely,
newcomer Oetse Holtman, Netherlands.

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:13 pm

System
Others
Page 3 right hand EQ
Page 4 left hand EQ
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Walleye » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:12 am

Sorry Larry,
I’m still confused—very new at this.
Where is system/others/ page 3 and page 4 ?
I don’t see/find anything that has to do with EQ.

My page 4 of the Editor pdf looks like this:
Using FR-4x Editor
TOOLS
SET
Saving a set (Write Set)
1. Use the drop-down list to select the save- destination for the set and the parts that you want to save.
2. Click [Write].
A confirmation message appears.
3. Click “Yes.”
The TOOLS screen lets you save, export, and import sets or user programs.
1. Click the TOOLS icon.
1
2. Click the item that you want to use.
2
4
And I can’t find anything in the Editor pdf that has to do with EQ.
Help!
Thanks!

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:28 am

Walleye wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:12 am
Sorry Larry,
I’m still confused—very new at this.
Where is system/others/ page 3 and page 4 ?
I don’t see/find anything that has to do with EQ.

My page 4 of the Editor pdf looks like this:
Using FR-4x Editor
TOOLS
SET
Saving a set (Write Set)
1. Use the drop-down list to select the save- destination for the set and the parts that you want to save.
2. Click [Write].
A confirmation message appears.
3. Click “Yes.”
The TOOLS screen lets you save, export, and import sets or user programs.
1. Click the TOOLS icon.
1
2. Click the item that you want to use.
2
4
And I can’t find anything in the Editor pdf that has to do with EQ.
Help!
Thanks!
This is on the pc screen editor program. Once you connect, in the upper left hand corner you see a “System” button. Select it. (To the right of the “tools” button).
This opens a new window which has four selections. “Master tune” “scale tune” “midi” “others”...
Select “others”. Then a window with the tabs to select 1-4...hope this helps...! You can now set parameters of the accordion. 3 and 4 tab is the EQ.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Esteo » Wed May 02, 2018 11:59 am

Giant thanks, Larry. Through the explanation to Walleye I found the settings.

* Can you give examples of settings that you use?
* How can I best save the EQ settings?
* Where did you find those EQ curves online?

Thank you again for helping.

Oetse Holtman

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Wed May 02, 2018 3:31 pm

Esteo wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:59 am
Giant thanks, Larry. Through the explanation to Walleye I found the settings.

* Can you give examples of settings that you use?
* How can I best save the EQ settings?
* Where did you find those EQ curves online?

Thank you again for helping.

Oetse Holtman
Strange thing? The factory settings (anyway mine) is set flat or zero on EQ?
The important thing is to set your EQ at full volume on accordion speakers to be sure of no distortion. Too much gain could cause this. What I do is adjust each setting to see how it is affecting sound. To me, I set the lower and higher frequencies up a bit, then the mid range down a bit.
Everybody I think, has there own settings or feel what their Accordion wants to sound like. I like the bright clean sound where others, like flatter sounds.
Experiment with your own settings.
I would be interested on what the factory defaults are on the fr8x for EQ?
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Keymn » Wed May 23, 2018 2:20 pm

I have been reading about those EQ curves on many You tube videos (nothing on accordions I found, so far). What I see on the Fr4x is main gain, then 4 different sets of gain, frequency and Q. The third party sets programmers are amazing selling points on these accordions. I would think they messed with the EQ. I setup my own.
I do not think there is a right or wrong on these settings. All I know, if sharing a wrong EQ, could mess up the accordion.
This video is a set program with my EQ. This was recorded directly on the iPad, no other amplification and gig was outdoors. I would be happy to share my EQ settings, but only through private message. It may not be to your liking?
https://youtu.be/O_3nfrnisoE
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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Walleye » Wed May 23, 2018 8:26 pm

Hello Larry,
I’d like to see and learn from your settings. Could you send me a private message in this regards?
Thank you.
Wally

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Esteo » Mon May 28, 2018 3:20 pm

Hello Larry,
I’d also like to see and learn from your settings. Could you send me too a private message in this regards?
Thank you.
Oetse

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Re: FR4x feedback

Post by Esteo » Mon May 28, 2018 8:13 pm

When I want to open (for example) "Bass edit" in the editor, i get a too small window.
Can I force that window to grow? (whitout hammer :oops: )
Attachments
Too small window.jpg

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