practicing leaps in LH

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henrikhank
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practicing leaps in LH

Post by henrikhank » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:28 am

What do you do in order to find the bass note you start on? And how did you practice finding the different buttons?
What I do is find C and then go C-G-D-A in order to find A if that is the first button.

It seems that the best exercise is to find to chords eg Am and C and then practice jumping between them untill you do it perfectly. Leaps are difficult.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by JEBrown » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:02 pm

To find the starting note - yes I use the same technique as you, although sometimes it's easier to use the marked E button as the starting point.

And for leaps - practice, practice, practice! In the Scottish music I play the jump from C to A (or equivalent) is very common, and it took me a few months before I could do this reliably, now I don't even need to think about it. Longer jumps need more practice...
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by george garside » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:39 pm

if you are playing major chord and bass with fingers 2 & 3 (COUNTING 1ST FINGER NOT THUMB AS 1) it is easy to reach up 4 rows with 1st finger to play maj or miner chords eg if playing C bass and chord with fingers 2 & 3 finger one should reach A whislt other two remain on C. same of course goes for F to D or any other combination

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by TomBR » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:01 pm

The very well known chord sequence I, VIminor, IV, V, for example C Am F G ("I like the flowers" or "The 50s progression") is a good one to practice.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by jollyrogeraccordions » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:10 am

I've been learning La Mangave. The bass has jumps from e to f and a to Bb at one point. Something like that anyway. From the rest of this thread it seems like practice is the answer (no surprise there). I have two questions. Is it better to use finger 2 and 3 in order as George suggests to be able to use e.g. The index finger (1) to sort of hunt upwards for the next button? Do some players just use 1 and 2 for fundamental/chord? My father gave me his accordion many years ago and (I think) advised use of 2 and 3, but I have got into a bad habit with fingers 1 and 2. The second question is this...if lose my left hand place I end up trying a bass note often to find I've either not got far enough or I have gone too far. At the end of the day am I right in assuming there is no silver bullet and it's just practice? One other thing...I have a 12x4 Verdi I for practice, which is light and gives me far fewer buttons to worry about than a 120...plus I can locate the F# by finding the top of the block.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by JerryPH » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:05 am

There are a couple of ways, but as mentioned in the end, the only thing that will define for you your level of success is the amount of time you spend repeating and practicing the move. The younger ones catch it faster than the older people but "repetition is the mother of skill". :)
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by debra » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:10 am

I can only repeat the answer "practice, practice, practice!".
I do feel where C is (that varies between instruments) and then everything is just 1) relative and 2) with practically the same distances on every instrument. (There seems to be less variation in size and spacing of the bass side of accordions than on the keyboard side.)
Once you have practiced a lot (and I mean really a lot) you can master every leap flawlessly. What really helps is to consider that the buttons never move. What you learn will still work a year from now as everything will still be in the same place on the same accordion.
(I tell this also to people who look at their keyboard while playing. As long as you keep playing the same instrument there should be no need to look at the keyboard because you (and your hand/arm) should really know where each key is. This friendly advice sometimes puzzles people and sometimes they think I am pulling their leg...)
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by jollyrogeraccordions » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:48 pm

Thanks. Yes, luckily, practice is never a problem for me. I have trouble keeping away from my Accordions... 8-) :D

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Howie » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:54 pm

jollyrogeraccordions wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:10 am
I've been learning La Mangave.

At the end of the day am I right in assuming there is no silver bullet and it's just practice?
It's a great tune, I've been struggling with it too. I agree there's no substitute for repeated practice, there are some left hand leaps that I struggle with - and yet some days I can hit them accurately, and those days are becoming more frequent. It's just a matter of programming the brain/muscle connections to be able to repeat a particular movement precisely.

For some reason I get the leap down to Bb spot on nearly every time, to F not so often. Not sure why that should be, since to F is a shorter hop. And compared to some pieces those aren't such large jumps, but any large-ish jump to F gives me the yips so I think a lot of it is mind over matter.

I don't know if others find this, but some leaps work easier for me when I am on a push movement, so I try to arrange it so the harder parts come when pushing, not pulling.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by george garside » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:29 pm

the purists may frown on it but in the early days of 'leaps' there is no harm in using a mirror to watch the bass. Some would argue that this results in a back to front image of the bass in the brain- it doesn't matter as in normal playing you cant see the bass anyway and a mental arse upards image works as well as any other

george :evil: ;)

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Mr Mark » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:34 pm

Most of my accordions I have found the space between the register selectors corresponds nicely to C and was thus easier to differentiate between E and Aflat.

I will second the mirror motion, early on it was a huge help but I only used it as such, and now don't use one at all. I never found it to reverse the mental image of the buttons in my head whatsoever.

Until I became completely familiar with which buttons were which I had printed out a bunch of bass button layouts in large readable fashion and tacked them all over the walls of my music room for easy reference when playing. Being new with piano I also printed out a bunch of piano chord layouts (major, minor, dom, dim) in the same order as the buttons were laid out and tacked them to the walls, again for quick reference.

The first song I rendered to accordion was an original guitar piece in A to F. That took me quite a long time to 'master' but once there was quite a good feeling.


I wish there was an easier way as I am a latecomer to the squeeze party but there is nothing easier yet also nothing harder than practice so I have to be happy to take the middle road.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Glenn » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:03 pm

Printing a number of bass layouts and having them handy is a great idea for beginners.
I used it a lot and it allows you to just have a think about the arrangement at any time and "test" yourself.
I used to test myself with things such as "what's the note name of the button above the F#?" so as to get it firmly in my porous brain. That is something you can learn "off-line". The jumps themselves must be done "on-line" with a suitable piece of music. The A to F jump, so common on the guitar, is a great example.

[warning - off thread] :?:
By the way, I still can't do an F barre chord on the guitar without making a mess of it.
I've been at it since February. Is the guitar more difficult tha the accordion? :hb
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by reivilos92 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:16 am

The third and last song I learnt in class before quitting was La valse d'Amélie from Tiersen. The LH goes DmDmAmAm DmDmAmAm FFCC. After a while I realised I had not practised properly. I had memorized the Am F jump in terms of space and initial posture instead of getting used to the keybord and just hit the right key. In fact I wasn't able to jump from E to C even if the jump is the same...

I chose to practise the LH much like the RH, memorize the layout, use alternate basses whenever possible, perform random jumps drills or just change the LH chords of the song to avoid the muscular memory pitfall.

Then I picked songs with several jumps instead of the usual 3- chord patterns in order to stop getting -scared- by the LH.
- Zazie's J'envoie valser song has a nice yet accessible bass pattern. iirc it's Am F Dm G Am Fm G G x 2, C F Am Am C F B B, C F E Am F E Am.
- For the lower part of the keyboard, I like to practise Tiersen's Les jours tristes.
https://youtu.be/RQaRDbxHNXg

Regarding chord change, La Valse d'Amélie seems to cope with AmAmFF DmDmGG though it seems to convey something different.

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Zevy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:21 am

Has anyone here used "Little Czerny for Accordion"? It came in three volumes; the third concentrated on the accordion's LH.
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by reivilos92 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:39 am

Zevy wrote:Has anyone here used "Little Czerny for Accordion"? It came in three volumes; the third concentrated on the accordion's LH.
Isn't it free-bass oriented ?

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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by JerryPH » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:23 pm

reivilos92 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:39 am
Zevy wrote:Has anyone here used "Little Czerny for Accordion"? It came in three volumes; the third concentrated on the accordion's LH.
Isn't it free-bass oriented ?
I believe it is, and I certainly would not mind getting my hands on this set of 3. :)
Image

Maybe THIS would be of slightly better value for Stradella users?
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Zevy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:05 am

JerryPH wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:23 pm
reivilos92 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:39 am
Zevy wrote:Has anyone here used "Little Czerny for Accordion"? It came in three volumes; the third concentrated on the accordion's LH.
Isn't it free-bass oriented ?
I believe it is, and I certainly would not mind getting my hands on this set of 3. :)
Image

Maybe THIS would be of slightly better value for Stradella users?
It is not for free bass. I studied them with Mr. Nunzio. I also went through "the mastery of the basses" book. No great shakes there compared to the workout you will get with the Czerny adaptations. I was specifically referring to the third Czerny book.
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by JerryPH » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:42 pm

I saw book 3 was available on amazon.com yesterday but this morning when I was going to pick it up, it is no longer available. I cannot find it anywhere online now.

Oh well, maybe in the future, not like I don't have other projects witing to happen and other method books to learn from. :)
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by Zevy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:21 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:42 pm
I saw book 3 was available on amazon.com yesterday but this morning when I was going to pick it up, it is no longer available. I cannot find it anywhere online now.

Oh well, maybe in the future, not like I don't have other projects witing to happen and other method books to learn from. :)
Don't give up, Jerry. Keep on searching, just as I did. I don't think they were ever reprinted. They were not as popular as his Hanon adaptation.

Good luck!
Zevy
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Re: practicing leaps in LH

Post by JerryPH » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:18 am

If after a long while of searching for legit sources, I might find someone with a scanner and an email address, that is always a 2nd way, but I want to give it a good go, at least several months or so.

In the meantime, I have lots to occupy me in the Free Bass stuff alone where I have the Ellengaard, Borgstrom, Little Pichna, Czerny and Macerollo books to keep my mind busy. If I get through just those, I will be a freaking master of the left hand... lol
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