What is he doing in this vid?

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accordian
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What is he doing in this vid?

Post by accordian » Thu May 17, 2018 10:35 am

I’ve seen this in a couple of vids
Where they play more than one
Note on the treble however I’m
Not sure what they are doing.
I tried using the chord for that
Note eg. If I’m pressing a c note
Then I will play c major etc. But this
Doesn’t seem to be it.

Could you please tell me what he is
Doing so I can incorporate it into my
Own playing.

Thanks

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Geronimo » Thu May 17, 2018 12:25 pm

accordian wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:35 am
I’ve seen this in a couple of vids
Where they play more than one
Note on the treble however I’m
Not sure what they are doing.
I tried using the chord for that
Note eg. If I’m pressing a c note
Then I will play c major etc. But this
Doesn’t seem to be it.

Could you please tell me what he is
Doing so I can incorporate it into my
Own playing.
Do you actually read what you are posting before sending it? You ask "what is he doing in this vid" but no video reference is given. Your description is so confused that it's impossible to guess what you are asking. You state "could you please tell me what he is doing" but since you are the only one actually looking at the video(s) and everybody else is dependent on your description, your description will only make sense enough for answering the question once you understand yourself what "he is doing".

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by mitchnc » Thu May 17, 2018 1:43 pm

I have some song arrangements that I started learning on CBA, but the books were written for PA.

The only way I could pull off many of the chords was by using one finger to press two buttons.
I don't know if it's "proper" technique but it worked for me.

At the time, I asked about it here but never got a response. But if I had, I'm pretty sure the responses would have been "Do whatever works." 😊

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by accordian » Thu May 17, 2018 7:44 pm

Geronimo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:25 pm
accordian wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:35 am
I’ve seen this in a couple of vids
Where they play more than one
Note on the treble however I’m
Not sure what they are doing.
I tried using the chord for that
Note eg. If I’m pressing a c note
Then I will play c major etc. But this
Doesn’t seem to be it.

Could you please tell me what he is
Doing so I can incorporate it into my
Own playing.
Do you actually read what you are posting before sending it? You ask "what is he doing in this vid" but no video reference is given. Your description is so confused that it's impossible to guess what you are asking. You state "could you please tell me what he is doing" but since you are the only one actually looking at the video(s) and everybody else is dependent on your description, your description will only make sense enough for answering the question once you understand yourself what "he is doing".
i'm sure I had put the video
link up. apparently not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLubDeChgtQ

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by xocd » Thu May 17, 2018 9:15 pm

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by JeffJetton » Thu May 17, 2018 11:19 pm

What is he doing when he's playing more than one note with his right hand?

He's playing more than one note in his right hand! :D

The trick, of course, is knowing which extra notes to play. That comes down to understanding chords and the individual notes that make them up. And that requires learning and studying.

In my opinion, it is crucial learning. Well, music theory in general is crucial, but the "chords" part of it is especially useful.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Tom » Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am

Hmmmm, I respectfully differ, but only in concept. You are correct, Jeff, it requires much, much learning and studying (ie. playing) However, I will respectfully submit that many great players never learn anything about music theory or chord theory. I have played with this type of player who don't have a clue what "tones" make up a chord, how to read music, or what a "scale" is. But they can play a million songs, in fact anything they hear, can improvise, play chords and harmony, etc. Etc. It's kind of bizarre.

In fact, as we all know, just by playing, your fingers start to naturally play harmony notes, runs, ornaments and chords, and you sort of gravitate to patterns that sound good, even if you don't analyze quite why. That's what makes this whole business so much fun. Anybody agree or am I just nuts?

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Geronimo » Fri May 18, 2018 8:01 am

Tom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am
Hmmmm, I respectfully differ, but only in concept. You are correct, Jeff, it requires much, much learning and studying (ie. playing) However, I will respectfully submit that many great players never learn anything about music theory or chord theory.
And many great poets have never thoroughly studied grammar. That doesn't make grammar useless.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by jozz » Fri May 18, 2018 10:18 am

Tom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am
In fact, as we all know, just by playing, your fingers start to naturally play harmony notes, runs, ornaments and chords, and you sort of gravitate to patterns that sound good, even if you don't analyze quite why. That's what makes this whole business so much fun. Anybody agree or am I just nuts?
I agree with this, but regarding the video with the Tarantella, this might be a bit over-analysing. I believe he learned the piece from sheet, and he plays the right hand just as it was written down.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Tom » Fri May 18, 2018 12:10 pm

[/quote]
And many great poets have never thoroughly studied grammar. That doesn't make grammar useless.
[/quote]

Absolutely, I'm not saying either road makes the other road useless. Most people nowadays probably develop from a combination. And learning from notes, studying theory, etc. Is probably faster too. Just because I like wine or traditional music doesn't mean I don't respect beer drinkers or classical.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by donn » Fri May 18, 2018 3:05 pm

Tom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am
Anybody agree or am I just nuts?
Yes! Seriously, if music couldn't work that way, it wouldn't exist.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Geronimo » Fri May 18, 2018 3:13 pm

Tom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:10 pm
And many great poets have never thoroughly studied grammar. That doesn't make grammar useless.
Absolutely, I'm not saying either road makes the other road useless.
They aren't different roads. It's like asking what is more important to get somewhere: walking or map reading. Obviously you won't get anywhere without actually walking, so maps are useless.

That's sort of the logic we are talking about here.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by JeffJetton » Fri May 18, 2018 6:34 pm

Tom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am
Hmmmm, I respectfully differ, but only in concept. You are correct, Jeff, it requires much, much learning and studying (ie. playing) However, I will respectfully submit that many great players never learn anything about music theory or chord theory.
Oh I agree. Many great players won't know the theory behind chords, but I bet they almost certainly will know chords (even if they don't know that that's what you call the thing they know!)

They will have discovered these ideas on their own, and might not have the same (or any) framework and vocabulary to refer to the concepts they use, but they will being using the same concepts regardless. It might be more "whenever I play this in this situation, I find that also doing this and this sounds good", or "songs in this key sure do seem to use these notes more often than not", rather than a strict theoretical definition, but the knowledge and outcome is basically the same.

The theory, after all, is just something we created later to explain the things in the music that already existed.

I guess it's sort of like learning how to build sturdy, attractive buildings. You could go formally learn a thing or two about architecture and structural engineering, or you could look at a lot of buildings and then just start building a lot of buildings and learn from the ones that fall over or turn out ugly. In the end (if you make it there without too many lawsuits) you'll have discovered the same basic principles that were always there.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by debra » Sat May 19, 2018 8:12 am

xocd wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:15 pm
Perhaps this link might be useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_chord

More accordion-specific:

https://www.amazon.com/Chord-Melody-Met ... B01FIWZ1OY
Interesting. I never knew there was actually a proper name for this. I do this a lot (add chords to the melody to give it more body). I do know the theory (harmony) of which notes to use for which chords but I also know people who do this with the right notes without ever having learned that theory.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by xocd » Sat May 19, 2018 1:21 pm

debra wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:12 am

Interesting. I never knew there was actually a proper name for this. I do this a lot (add chords to the melody to give it more body).
IMO, some arrangers overdo this, full chord on every single note, to the point that the melody gets buried in a wall of chords: e.g., in some hands, Gary Dahl's arrangements.
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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by Tom » Sat May 19, 2018 2:34 pm

Yup, I think in terms of "shapes", like "up 2" and "up 2" gives you the 3rd and 5th (accounting for accidentals) above, and "down 3" and "down 2" gives you them below.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by TomBR » Sat May 19, 2018 3:32 pm

Hi "Accordian"
Here's something specific for you to try.
Play C bass and C major with your left hand, any rhythm you like.
At the same time with your right hand play the white notes, C E and G. Play C with your right thumb. It's nice and easy and comfortable, starting from C and going up (to higher pitches) it's play one, miss one, play one, miss one play one.

Try different rhythms between right and left hand.

Change to an F bass and chord with your left hand and at the same time, keep your thumb on C and move the other two fingers one white note higher. You've now got C F and A, so you have an F major chord to match your left hand. Your hand, starting from the thumb is now play one, miss two, play one, miss one play one.

Go back to the C chord and hand position. Change the bass note and chord to G and at the same time keep the top note of your three notes, the G, the same and move the other two notes down one white key. You now have B, D and G, so a G chord to match your bass. The pattern is now play one, miss one, play one, miss two, play one.

You've now got "three chord trick" in right and left hand and you're hardly moving your right hand any further than you do when you change between basses on the left hand.

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by george garside » Sat May 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Whilst not wishing in any way to contradict the advice in respect of the importance of formal study of chord formations etc etc etc those who play by ear /from memory and have formal training or theoretical knowledge make up a very significant part of the box fraternity.

For the benefit of 'earists' but also maybe useful for 'dotists' Tony Hall , a melodeon player of considerable renown explained his approach thus-- just stop on a note in the tune and keep that note going whilst pressing other buttons until you find a combination that sounds good. Keeping those two notes going find a third note that makes the other two sound even better. Remember that combination for future use. The principle is just as valid using a piano or continental keyboard . It becomes totally intuitive with practice and of course can also be used by dotists to thicken up a tune where only a single note is shown on the score

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by JeffJetton » Sat May 19, 2018 6:22 pm

Another advantage of knowing your chords (whether learned formally or by trail and "ear-or") is that it allows you see music as "words" rather than individual "letters". Music often comes in chunks or patterns, and they're often chord-based.

Take Fascination, for example. You could memorize it as B-C-E-G... etc., or you could recognize the chord shape in all of that and chunk those notes together in your mind.

So you wind up thinking of the song as "I lead into a C major arpeggio with a half-step approach note, then do little half-step noodle on that top note (making it really more of a C major 7 really). I do that agin with a variation on the ending, then I basically repeat the pattern but with a D minor arpeggio to Dm7 arpeggio, etc."

(The bonus is that if you think of those chords by their functions--as I and ii instead of C and Dm, well then you can easily play Fascination in any arbitrary key too.)

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Re: What is he doing in this vid?

Post by accordian » Sat May 19, 2018 8:21 pm

TomBR wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 3:32 pm
Hi "Accordian"
Here's something specific for you to try.
Play C bass and C major with your left hand, any rhythm you like.
At the same time with your right hand play the white notes, C E and G. Play C with your right thumb. It's nice and easy and comfortable, starting from C and going up (to higher pitches) it's play one, miss one, play one, miss one play one.

Try different rhythms between right and left hand.

Change to an F bass and chord with your left hand and at the same time, keep your thumb on C and move the other two fingers one white note higher. You've now got C F and A, so you have an F major chord to match your left hand. Your hand, starting from the thumb is now play one, miss two, play one, miss one play one.

Go back to the C chord and hand position. Change the bass note and chord to G and at the same time keep the top note of your three notes, the G, the same and move the other two notes down one white key. You now have B, D and G, so a G chord to match your bass. The pattern is now play one, miss one, play one, miss two, play one.

You've now got "three chord trick" in right and left hand and you're hardly moving your right hand any further than you do when you change between basses on the left hand.
ah yes tried this
and I see what you
mean but. if I use
chord inversions does
it bring out the note more?
I thought instead of c major,
ceg playing it as gec or egc
this way the c is the hightest
note.

as for what you suggested
I see what you mean. if what
I said is correct maybe I understood
you wrong but if I play chords as inversions
wouldn't I be able to do as you said but with chord
inversions I can play twinkle twinkle for example?

thanks

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