Poinciana - by Nat Simon

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Piotr
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Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by Piotr » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:33 pm

Poinciana - very old tune ..

From Poland :)

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jozz
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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by jozz » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:41 am

VERY nice! also good sound in this recording {}

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losthobos
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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by losthobos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:07 am

and a very lovely one at that...
Superb separation / dynamics...
Thank you
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...

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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by Geronimo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:54 am

What mics do you use here?

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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by Piotr » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:56 am

Thank you.
I used here Audio Technica AT2020 - nice mics.
From Poland :)

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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by Geronimo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:28 pm

Just looked at the specs: 20dB of self noise is not really low for a condenser, but 16mm diaphragm is not really "large". At that distance, the self noise is not all that relevant anyway. I had previously used Røde NT1A which are 5dB and 25mm respectively and those fall apart acoustically when using my 3-reed tremolo with similar microphone positioning. So I think that you are likely better off for accordion with the AT2020 than you'd be with the large-diaphragm quieter cousin AT2035.

You added a bit much reverb to hear out the fine details of the sound rendition but what's there is nice.

Man, I sound like a surgeon talking about a pretty face. Sorry for being so gear-centric. You don't leave a lot of space for nitpicking with the rest. Nicely played, nice box.

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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by losthobos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:43 pm

It's lovely to my ears....but not meaning to hijack the thread...and seeing as you guys seem to know...
May i ask...what sort of reverb is idael for the right hand, ie room, chamber, hall etc and to what sort of depth
Also is reverb add to the right and alone and then perhaps a tad compression to the left
thanks
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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by JeffJetton » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:40 pm

Nice! I would not have thought that the song would work well on accordion, but it does indeed.

Like many in the US, my initial exposure to the song was via the marvelous jazz pianist Ahmad Jamal...


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JerryPH
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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by JerryPH » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:34 am

Piotr did a lovely job with the song, it even sounds nice on an old iPad. :)
losthobos wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:43 pm
...what sort of reverb is idael for the right hand, ie room, chamber, hall etc and to what sort of depth
Also is reverb add to the right and alone and then perhaps a tad compression to the left
The amount and style of reverb only depends on one single thing... What the person that is editing the accordion wants. We had one comment that there was too much reverb, and it is only decernible in a few places in the song, personally, I like how much is there and even a touch more would not be offensive to my ears.

When it comes time to differentiate between left and right hands, where realism is concerned, I have yet to see any accordionist in a hall where one hand had different reverberation from the other. :)

Kidding aside, one wants reverb to be the same and it is one of those effects that is added at the end of the song and is applied to the entire track.

The mics of choice. I have been looking around a lot the last week at mics. It seems that I am pulled a lot in the $750-$1000 range, but if I look at the $100 range, there is absolutely no better condensor mic than the Audio Technica AT2020. You can mention the AT2030 with the lower noise level and better bass response, but they are also almost double the price in the $180 range. The Rhode NTA1 is also a good choice, but it is more than double the price in the $225 each range, but the facts are, none of these mics will capture the audio of an acoustic accordion all that much better than the AT2020... and certainly not 2 times better, so it is very hard to justify the bang for the buck aspect. You can do a LITTLE better if you double the money, but you cannot find a much better condensor mic for that amount.

Mics that might come close to the AT2020 are the MXL770, and are about $10-$15 less.

Condensor mics have a specific sound, but they require 48 volt phantom power. There is a lot to be said about the gold standard... The $100 dynamic mic, the Shure SM58. No phantom power needed, a slightly richer sound and way tougher. You can almost use the SM58 like a hammer, but drop a condensor mic even on a hard carpeted surface, and it is often damaged beyond repair.

Just a few thoughts, :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Poinciana - by Nat Simon

Post by Geronimo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:39 am

JerryPH wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:34 am
Piotr did a lovely job with the song, it even sounds nice on an old iPad. :)
losthobos wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:43 pm
...what sort of reverb is idael for the right hand, ie room, chamber, hall etc and to what sort of depth
Also is reverb add to the right and alone and then perhaps a tad compression to the left
The amount and style of reverb only depends on one single thing... What the person that is editing the accordion wants. We had one comment that there was too much reverb,
That's close to being a misattribution. I said that there was too much reverb for me to discern/discuss further details of the recording setup. That's not the same as there being too much reverb for enjoying listening: that's a different target.
The mics of choice. I have been looking around a lot the last week at mics. It seems that I am pulled a lot in the $750-$1000 range, but if I look at the $100 range, there is absolutely no better condensor mic than the Audio Technica AT2020. You can mention the AT2030 with the lower noise level and better bass response, but they are also almost double the price in the $180 range. The Rhode NTA1 is also a good choice, but it is more than double the price in the $225 each range, but the facts are, none of these mics will capture the audio of an acoustic accordion all that much better than the AT2020...
In my experience, as soon as a smooth tremolo sound comes into play, affordable large condensers (while I cannot offer experience with the non-affordable ones like Schoeps or Neumann, I specifically worked with the Røde NT1A) fall down and would likely be worse than the AT2020. They work if you are not using tremolo and want a piercing sound quality (like with tango): actually Røde in general leans toward brightness. But having a rig of several mics which you can then change in sync with the registration in post-editing seems like overkill for a hobbyist. Better just to work with a more generally useful mic.

Really, if you want to shell out serious money for mics, be sure to test drive them using the accordion with the smoothest and noblest tremolo you have (if your accordion is good for it, possibly even working with a partially engaged register): that's the hardest to get right and cannot be reasonably fixed in post production. The low noise levels of a good large diaphragm condenser are not really all that important in a studio setting.

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