Effective Effects

For the modern ones among us.
Geronimo
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Geronimo » Sun May 27, 2018 8:42 am

jozz wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:19 am
what I mean with 'speak' is that the waveform they output, will already be smooth comapred to acoustic as Roland's modelling will no doubt be optimised
An engineer's fallacy. If 40+ years of Microsoft should have taught us anything it's that being market leader does not imply that your products have to meet principal standards of sanity.

Don't assume anything that you have not verified. I've had some sobering lessons in that regard...

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Sun May 27, 2018 12:25 pm

I will say it again and again! There is no right way or wrong way on how we establish sound results coming out of our speakers. We need to go back to basics., 3 controls: volume, tone and a little spring reverb. I think my first Amp was A Magnatone or Tonemaster? They were brown? In the sixties, I never had a concern of accordion sound coming out of the amp. I think because the tubes made it a warm sound. Today we take a digital sound and try to warm it up with effects. I will never forget a guitar player That bought his first transistorized amp. His comment, “sound not warm”. This was in the mid sixties.
Those that purchase these Vaccordions should set them up from factory to there liking. It is not that complicated! As some may think. Just small adjustments is all I did.
Be creative !
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Sun May 27, 2018 2:19 pm

I did a couple recordings with Accordion compressed and uncompressed.
Attachments
Lilly Marlene Compressed.mp3
Accordion Compressed
(723.67 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
Lilly Marlene Uncompressed.mp3
Accordion Uncompressed
(723.67 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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JerryPH
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by JerryPH » Mon May 28, 2018 12:01 am

Keymn wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:01 am
FR8x have compression? Or just EQ like 4x? I am going to demo compressed and uncompressed demo in the near future...
No compression anywhere that I can see, and in a way I am happy about it. Balance between different "instruments" is something that can be accomplished via individual volume settings, and that leaves us free to play loud or soft and get the full dynamic range available. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Mon May 28, 2018 12:55 am

JerryPH wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:01 am
Keymn wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:01 am
FR8x have compression? Or just EQ like 4x? I am going to demo compressed and uncompressed demo in the near future...
No compression anywhere that I can see, and in a way I am happy about it. Balance between different "instruments" is something that can be accomplished via individual volume settings, and that leaves us free to play loud or soft and get the full dynamic range available. :)
Sometimes listening to a mix is better with your car stereo...something to try. I used the Cakewalk Sonutus Plug in. According to the compressed chart it was pumping it down. I then had to raise the output gain on recording to match uncompressed track. Probably you are right not noticed, but when playing with compression seems to me easier to use bellows. Maybe my own opinion on this?
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JerryPH
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by JerryPH » Mon May 28, 2018 1:53 am

Keymn wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:55 am
Maybe my own opinion on this?
No, you are not entirely alone with that opinion. A lot depends on the intended audience and the style of music. There is zero reason to compress a slower silent love song, but a raucous polka with lots of bass and heavy swing is helped with some compression. Also, car stereos are in cars, where there is typically lot of wind and road noise and often less bass than in the average home stereo or headphones. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Mon May 28, 2018 2:48 am

JerryPH wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:53 am
Keymn wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:55 am
Maybe my own opinion on this?
No, you are not entirely alone with that opinion. A lot depends on the intended audience and the style of music. There is zero reason to compress a slower silent love song, but a raucous polka with lots of bass and heavy swing is helped with some compression. Also, car stereos are in cars, where there is typically lot of wind and road noise and often less bass than in the average home stereo or headphones. :)
Well said...now with gigs coming in, The clients are more concerned on cost and song style played. Never ask, what kind of accordion...
But in profession recording, a few plugin effects are essential. When I mix a song and think it ok, plug it in the car radio. For some reason I hear a different mix and more bass then necessary is heard. Then go Back to the mixing board!
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jozz
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by jozz » Mon May 28, 2018 7:24 pm

Ok, I'm back with a short impression of the QSC touch mixer. I must say, it's not for me. Mainly because it's 'fiddly', and you have to dive in the control screen first to do changes. The owner was the piano player and was a bit of a gadget freak, played piano samples on a Macbook with a workstation and such...but even he had trouble with doing small changes on the fly.

It's very attractive in form (small) and offers a LOT of stuff in that small package. Soundwise there is nothing to remark, it does what it needs to do. I didn't have time to check out the compression on my instrument, but he set it for a close harmony group and that sounded awesome.

Then the addition of the app to set the faders is cool. All in all when you have a couple of musicians to amplify, it's a nice deal coupled with a pair of good active speakers. It fits on the back seat of your car for a small venue.

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Mon May 28, 2018 7:57 pm

jozz wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:24 pm
Ok, I'm back with a short impression of the QSC touch mixer. I must say, it's not for me. Mainly because it's 'fiddly', and you have to dive in the control screen first to do changes. The owner was the piano player and was a bit of a gadget freak, played piano samples on a Macbook with a workstation and such...but even he had trouble with doing small changes on the fly.

It's very attractive in form (small) and offers a LOT of stuff in that small package. Soundwise there is nothing to remark, it does what it needs to do. I didn't have time to check out the compression on my instrument, but he set it for a close harmony group and that sounded awesome.

Then the addition of the app to set the faders is cool. All in all when you have a couple of musicians to amplify, it's a nice deal coupled with a pair of good active speakers. It fits on the back seat of your car for a small venue.
When it comes to these types of mixers, more to set. Probably get an awesome sound if set right. My interest in this was recording live, 3 or 4 channels and the ability to connect to a DAW for a final multitrack mix. Think you connect a external hard drive and each channel records seperate?
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jozz
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by jozz » Mon May 28, 2018 9:04 pm

Keymn wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:57 pm
Think you connect a external hard drive and each channel records seperate?
yes it does that

the guy had his macbook hooked up and recorded everything straight to it but a seperate disk works as well

it's like you say, if you take the time to really get to know the settings it's very powerful in that small a package

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:04 am

I just ordered the Presonus 68. I needed the 4 inputs to record my keyboard arranger, vocals and accordion (actually only need three) in my DAW in one take. I have Cakewalk by BandLab (btw I think the full version is still free online). I have many plugins for effects from my past Cakewalk Sonar X1 Producer. The effects and even the instrument plugins are not bad. Some are studio quality, especially the True Pianos plug in. Wish Roland had that sound!

https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-68
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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Geronimo » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:35 am

Keymn wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:04 am
I just ordered the Presonus 68. I needed the 4 inputs to record my keyboard arranger, vocals and accordion (actually only need three) in my DAW in one take.
Why? Just record the Midi and bounce it through the arranger (or even the accordion if it's a Roland) in a second pass. Did sort-of a demo with that in this video. The basic point is that the Midi allows you to recreate the sound at a later point of time.

My MS40 arranger actually has a "song recorder" of its own: you can record and replay at arbitrary speed but it would probably not work well for anything but its own sound patches as expander: you'd likely use a more generic "sequencer" for other Midi-to-audio devices. Though you can fiddle around with the input/output assignments a lot: it may even be possible to have only the lead on Midi Out for "song replay".

But I'll readily admit that using just one take tends to be more convenient. You should just make sure to avoid ground loops when working with multiple unbalanced sources: sometimes having a spare DI can save the day. Also there are crappy Midi-USB interfaces around with an actual ground connection: complete madness since one of the points of Midi's slow baudrate (31250 bps) is to be compatible with the speed of optocouplers providing galvanic isolation, a very good feature for audio production.

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Re: Effective Effects

Post by Keymn » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:17 pm

Geronimo wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:35 am
Keymn wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:04 am
I just ordered the Presonus 68. I needed the 4 inputs to record my keyboard arranger, vocals and accordion (actually only need three) in my DAW in one take.
Why? Just record the Midi and bounce it through the arranger (or even the accordion if it's a Roland) in a second pass. Did sort-of a demo with that in this video. The basic point is that the Midi allows you to recreate the sound at a later point of time.

My MS40 arranger actually has a "song recorder" of its own: you can record and replay at arbitrary speed but it would probably not work well for anything but its own sound patches as expander: you'd likely use a more generic "sequencer" for other Midi-to-audio devices. Though you can fiddle around with the input/output assignments a lot: it may even be possible to have only the lead on Midi Out for "song replay".

But I'll readily admit that using just one take tends to be more convenient. You should just make sure to avoid ground loops when working with multiple unbalanced sources: sometimes having a spare DI can save the day. Also there are crappy Midi-USB interfaces around with an actual ground connection: complete madness since one of the points of Midi's slow baudrate (31250 bps) is to be compatible with the speed of optocouplers providing galvanic isolation, a very good feature for audio production.
If I was doing a professional radio recording, yes I would midi record the arranger channels, I have 16 on the Korg PA3x. For a demo, just want to do the old school audio channels. On my DAW template have 16 channels midi and 4 channels audio.
Ground loops, yes are something to watch. I have a headphone amp for multiple headphones, it is powered and creates a hum when connected audio interface. Have to figure it out, I think a ground loop? For now, not need more then 1 headphone.
Thanks for the input and share. Lots to learn in the home recording techniques. I want to eventually create my own styles loops on the DAW to be added to an arranger. Another subject matter to discuss in the future.
Here we go again off the main topic...!
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